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The
Following responses are from Dice Setter Newsletter subscribers
replying to a
question about if
they feel comfortable with the fairness of casino dice. The answers
selected below did not exactly pertain to our question below, but we
felt that
since the effort was made, we would still publish their comments. They have
been
selected from our February Survey. Dice Setter Wants to Know...
"Have
you played craps in a casino and felt that the dice used in the game
were altered
or otherwise not fair dice? Do you
think casinos cheat at the dice table?"
Table
Conditions and Other Replies |
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My input is about tables, not
dice. I recently played several sessions over a weekend
stay at a casino in West Virginia. The craps tables were
scattered throughout the casino's floor plan. In one
section, I played a table that was very 'live'. The dice
bounced pretty wildly, and I had to alter my throw to try
to tame the bounciness. Next, I migrated to a different
table-games area, and found a couple tables on which the
dice rolled in a much more 'true' fashion. I was finally
able to make a little money at that point, so I never
returned to the other table-games section of that casino.
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At times when I haven't being
doing well they let the dice go while at other times when
I seem to have something going they bring the dice in to
change and say that the need to rotate the dice. When the
dice goes off the table and I'm doing well they say the
need to change the dice because it went off the table.
They seem to hold up the game on good rolls to check the
dice but when its all good in their favor they let game go
on.
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Probably not the dice but the
tables. Also, they wanted our arms not to pass the
midpoint of the tables.
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With in the past 6 to 9 months
I have found that shooting them bones has been more of a
challenge to be a consistent shooter as in years past. I
don't think it is so much as the casino's are altering the
dice, but more so the Craps table construction has been
changing subtlety. The tables have seemed to of gotten
lighter in my experience when I accidently leaned on a
table at Caesars Palace a little too heavily and the darn
table nearly flipped over. Years past you could sort of
lean on the table quite a bit with your elbows and the
tables didn't tend to move so easily as they do today. The
lighter material being used in the shooting deck has added
a bit more spring to the dice when they land, and I have
taken notice that the diamond cushioning around the
playing field is now being made from a poly-propylene
based material giving a greater kick back when the dice
come in contact with it.
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I was playing at Harvey's in
Lake Tahoe sometime between January- March of 09. I had
already gotten 4 point numbers a win for the fire bet. I
was setting the three V. During this time I got a
different dice because I could no longer set it. I was
confused at first, felt embarrassed about the situation
and trudged on, within a few tosses I seven-ed out.
Later, as I reminisced on what took place, it upset me
that the casino, mainly the supervisor would put this dice
into play. I was not throwing the dice that good; I think
I was just getting lucky. I'm not sure how long I had the
dice, people high fived me, got a generous round of
clapping, but I had only bought in for 100.00 and was
playing the minimum, nickels. As I was winning I graduated
up on the place numbers, 5,6,8 and 9. I only won
approximately 250 dollars. I have lost much more than I
have won, believe me I'm a long ways from being a good
dice setter/player. This left me with a sour taste in my
mouth and I haven't visited Harvey's for a while. That has
been my only experience where I felt cheated. There have
been numerous times where the supervisor has Low Browed me
down, not really saying anything, but feeling the heat I
eventually left the table. That�s my experience.
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I usually play at the Showboat
in AC approx every two months or so. There are two crap
tables that are back to back on the mail floor that are
near the cages and one table that is facing at the end..
Since approx 2006, it seems that the two tables that are
back to back is like it is full of 7's and I can not get a
run on them, although one time I was setting for all
sevens and had about a 15 number roll. I could not get
anything going on the two. Now the end table is open
approx. 10 PM on weekends and I can do a little better on
it. I don't know if it is the dice at the tables or is it
the felt and what is under it. Don't know if this helps or
not? Please let me know what you come up with. Been
hearing about shaved dice but I can't feel any difference
and also that the commission lets them use them.
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I play at the same casino
every day. I have often wondered why everyone at the table
7 outs before the third roll. I myself try to set and
throw the dice the same every time. I consider myself a
good dice player. I had an 18 throw roll no point the
other day. I regularly throw 6 to 10 rolls each time I
throw with a couple of points thrown in. I have had more
than one half hour to forty five minute roll. But other
times I cannot roll at all. I roll out immediately. On my
practice table at home I rarely roll out. My conclusion is
since they mic the new dice each time before the put them
in play, the dice are mostly the same size. But weight and
shape can be subtle and not noticeable. The table could
also be altered ever so slightly to allow the roll to be
more random. Therefore I believe there is a sweet spot on
the table that if you hit it each time you can roll for
ever. I have not been able to rationalize why a good table
turns bad and a bad table turns good all of a sudden. I
have played on all sizes of tables with bounce and no
bounce and there are some tables I cannot win on no matter
what I do. So I stay away from those casinos. So the
answer to your question do I think the casino's manipulate
the game. Yes I do. Are they supposed too? No they are
not. But there is no other reasonable conclusion.
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I have not experienced the
dice being taken out of the game and then changed. I also
believe the casinos I go to all use 3/4 inch die. There
are a lot of things they do thought: some stickman
hassles you verbally as a controlled thrower. When you
get a long run going sometimes the guys in suits start to
get the dealers talking about nothing and laughing and
slowing down the dice being returned. Another game is to
pass a seven up to you, then take them back and fix it and
apologies, breaks the rhythm. None of these actions ever
are done when a random thrower is throwing.
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I have found that the dice can
almost stop with time and then roll or drop to a different
number. I always thought it was an adjusted surface of the
felt. I have seen the die stop in motion and drop in favor
of making the most chips on the table at the time the cast
of the dice is made. In fact one of the moves I make is to
study how tight the surface of the green felt feels to my
hand. I will place my hand flat on the surface and check
the tightness or how loose the felt feels is. If its feels
different and I am bumping heads and getting no where I
will leave. I have wondered if there is the sudden
powerful gust of air that is unnoticeable to me could make
a die do the sometimes strange things in final split
moment before the dice sets the number. There are a lot of
my friends that think sometimes there are different
results than expected, that is favorable to the table. I
always change my game from positive to negative or
negative to positive, and watch how it�s turning. If I
still can't change my results I will change my game and
Hop Sevens (3 ways) or I will hit the other table or most
of the time leave. I have often felt that sometimes things
just don't look right.
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I have noticed a few years
back that one casino (Fitzgerald's) in downtown LV had
altered the table by placing some extra foam rubber or
similar material under the lay down at both ends of the
table. This made the dice extremely jumpy and they flew
off the table a lot. Needless to say, I left that casino
and played elsewhere. I just returned from LV two weeks
ago and I stopped by the Fitz to see if the tables were
still bouncy. I noticed the worn ridge where the foam
used to stop (near the pass line) but was not sure I could
detect the presence of the foam. Did not play there
because there were better places to spend my time. I know
this is not what you were specifically looking for but I
thought you might like to know.
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I live in San Diego where we
have numerous Indian Casinos that have came up with all
different ways to play Craps BUT it's in conjunction with
cards A-6. California laws prohibit the use of dice as the
outcome of any game.. If you ever come down to Sunny Sandy
Eggo, you'll get a kick on how crazy they play Indian
Style Craps.. More specifically, BARONA IMHO has the
closest thing to Vegas style. You do roll two dice, but
the out come is different because the dealer has cards A's
-6 laid randomly out in front of him
Before you roll.
- Each card is put in front of a silk screened dices of
1-6. So if you roll a 2 and 5, it may actually equal a 4
and 6.. Etc... It's all the same outcome... More Cold
than Hot rolls.. Don�t betters seem to make out better,
but watch out for that 30+ minute roll who's as Hot as the
Sun...
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Some tables seem more bouncy
or dead, some dice tend to not want to stay together, or
wobble. Some sets work better on one table and not
another. Then when it is all said and done, how you
toss will make a difference, some days you make no
mistakes, and then others you toss them off the table. I
would think if they could get away with it they would
try. There has been time you toss real good but when you
change tables you can't toss at all. No I do not drink
when I play, don�t like to go to the restroom, when
playing. Don't know if this helps in your survey, I feel
like they do sometimes. What about the color, red better
than blue?
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I have been a Crap Shooter
over a 40 year time span, and the Dice have gone through a
change that is in favor of the House over the last few
years. It would be nice to know what the Laws of Miss,
Nevada and N.J. say Now about the Weight ETC of the Dice
and if the Casinos have ask for a change in that Makeup. I
have never seen so many Seven and Out as I have in the
last few years. Please post those Laws, and if you can
highlight the changes.
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Twice. I was at Mohegan Sun,
last August, close to Labor day. In the is It Hilton,
whatever the hotel is down there, they had left hand dice.
I sort of noticed it as they were passing the dice to the
player on my right as I was stick left, on the end of the
table. When I got them I think I was having difficulty
with the flying-v set. That's when I realized it. But I
said something, the stickman and the box acted like they
did not know what I was talking about. Don't remember if I
asked for new dice. They asked me to explain it, at that
point I chose not to. But another player knew what I was
talking about, and explained it to them. Meanwhile they
had qualified me as a shooter from the West Coast
(evidently hard ways there are always off on the come out,
and when I was calling them off they were surprised}.
So when the shift manager (?)
came over, the pit boss made some off-hand remark re: my
comment to SM. At which point he took a look, acknowledged
what I had said, examined the nine dice, Took out another
set, and realized or said that they all were like that. He
was very polite about it, unlike the stick. The pit now
was impressed by me, and I not now liking the attention I
had received was about to color up. ($100.00 bankroll,
Wasn't really working w/ a loss limit/win limit). Was
up$20-30. So they invited me to come back later on, etc,
but I didn't know what to think and went back to Foxwoods.
Overall my throws were hot, but I played too long most of
the rest of my stay and ended up way out there in the
losses.
The second time, I was in a
Las Vegas Casino, maybe Stratosphere of late, and I don't
remember the other (four or five months ago), maybe a
Station Casino. Now I know "new dice" feel different. But
in my experience, not lighter. But each of these two
times, I had the distinct impression that the dice were
lighter. Yes do try & warm-up, before I go to the tables,
be it either prax. Throws in the hotel on the floor, or
finger and hand stretches in the bathrooms. So I don't
think it was unfamiliarity.
Sorry for the long-windedness.
And what's with the forum, you closed it? I get
"maintenance mode" message when I try to log in. Yes, been
studying on my own. Loved Yuri's book. Friend made the
table, but a little to heavy to move, though it fits the
bldg's billiard table perfectly. Also I get accustomed to
heat, coz new bldg manger hassles me if I use it and they
installed closed-circuit TV. Both my neck & back spine
surgeries were successful, but prax on floor can cause me
swelling. Can you plug me back in?
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I seem
to have the best luck shooting from the end. Actually I
have a spot from every table I prefer. 1 of the casinos
has an extra layer of felt under the layout according to a
dealer friend I know that works there. I very seldom play
there because I don't seem to be able to do any good. I'm
a pretty small unit size player. $5.00 on the pass line,
then $6.00 on the 6 and 8 until either one hits twice then
I press it to $12.00 and on up every 2 wins as long as the
roll continues. When I throw, I'll place $5.00 on the 5
and 9 also as I seem to hit them both a lot. I haven't
played since New Years Eve because our weather has been
terrible with snow and cold. I'm in Council Bluffs, Iowa
next to OMAHA, NE. Council Bluffs has 4 Casinos. 2
riverboats (1 HARRAHS & 1 AMERISTAR boat) and a large land
based HORSESHOE also owned by HARRAHS. Horseshoe allows
100 times odds but I don't ever see anyone playing it.
All 3 have a fire bet. 4 numbers pay 25-1, 5 pays 250-1
and 6 pays 1000-1. I've hit 5 a few times but can't get
the sixth one. Most of the time I don't play it because
it�s just another sucker bet. I do enjoy your
newsletters.
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The diamond rubber has the
bottom 1/4 inch of rubber removed so the cove is flush
with the table. The razor sharp dice are chanced during or
after a good roll. Interference by the stickman, including
restricting your line of sight. Roaming ringers in the
game used to obstruct your drop zone. Most unknown by the
crew, but When they are know, the dumb crew won't bother
to pay them their wins. Trampoline type table tops. And
last but not least, having someone grab your arm during a
good roll. Add the usual slow up arguments by the crew and
new made up rules by the boxman and then who Has time to
worry about the dice.
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In response to survey: I don�t
play enough in the various casinos across the USA to know
what goes on in the casinos. My play is mostly in Vegas,
Reno and Tahoe at the major casinos and I would assume
they are on the level as far as the dice are concerned. I
don�t know how much difference there is in the size of the
dice or how the various surfaces affect the game. I do
know that I have to really keep an eye on the crew as they
BS with players and lose focus and either forget to pay
you, not payoff correctly or not cash you out correctly
which has happened to me a couple of times and then it
becomes a I did/he didn�t have a bet or that many chips to
cash in. Pit Bosses tend to go with their crew even though
in a couple of instances they have sided with me. I stay
away from off the wall casinos or those casinos situated
way out in the boonies. I hope that this helps.
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I don�t know about the dice,
but our large casino just outside of town changed the
craps tables surfaces (all 3) to really hard surfaces that
the dice bounce crazy on. From the time they changed it,
there is very little winning going on at that table. Even
trying the techniques for "bouncy" tables don�t really
work-they just randomly pitch once they strike that
surface.
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I don't know if they fix the
dice but I have noticed sometimes that the sound of the
dice hitting the board is different and when that occurs
they seem to bounce funny. I never win on those hollow
sounding tables.
I do feel that the house uses
shills because I have noticed on many different gambling
trips that when a really good roll is on some idiot
squeezes his way onto the already full table with the
permission of the pit and throws money in while the
shooter is rolling or puts their hand out so the dice hit
them or even yells out he is playing or laying against the
shooter which I have found for whatever reason the shooter
proceeds to seven out.
I have also noticed that when
the pit becomes confrontational with a player or shooter
no good comes from that either. I have also noticed that
if you set the dice and are not making a play for the
dealers they just shove the dice at you, knowing you want
them a certain way, and lots of times a seven will show,
again maybe just me but that's always bad for me.
I think if a Casino did tamper
with the dice they would have too much to lose in terms of
being in business (could you imagine the
fines, lawsuits etc...) and it would not benefit them in
any way because there are far more losers than winners
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Was playing at a Native
American casino in Chelan, WA. We were playing the don't
pass, and don't come all night. We were the only two doing
so and were only playing $3 with minimum odds bets on the
don't comes. Even with the small bets we were making, we
ended up walking away with close to $500 between the two
of us, which for us was quite a haul. Twice, the dice
were changed in the middle of a shooter's roll, very odd
to us, even as novice as we were. And we were the only
winners for the time we were there, about 3 hours. Should
we have been concerned when the dice were exchanged in the
middle of a roll?
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I have never actually
experienced dice that have been altered but have felt I
have been unfairly treated when I'm having a long roll.
Casinos, slow down the flow of the game, or speed it up,
sometimes stopping the game all together for little
irritating causes. If a player did similar things the
casino would first warn; then pass the dice to the next in
line. I have also had a pit boss order me a drink that was
completely 100% alcohol (tequila) which I borrowed a
cigarette and dropped it in and then set the glass down.
Two years ago a boxman and crew systematically hassled me,
used the stickman to hit my back just B4 I rolled,
complain no matter where I threw the dice that it was not
acceptable. (even when I threw them in the corner mixing
bowl areas) My solution is taking my play elsewhere.
Practice Advantage Craps! Besides lovemaking and singing
in the shower, there aren't many human activities where
there is a greater difference between a person's
self-delusional ability and actual ability; than in CRAPS.
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I have not detected altered
dice but there is another concern that I have. Nearly
half of the crap tables that I see now have an altered top
that has a layer of foam or other bouncy material that
gives an extra spring to the dice when they hit the table.
This has the effect of negating the skill of the shooter
in terms of their ability to gain any advantage from
experience, practice, dice setting, and dice influencing
tosses. This has seriously changed the way that I approach
the game. I see a future in which all tables will
eventually be so altered. The casinos really fear an
advantage player who has taken the time to understand the
game and to acquire some skill. I would not be surprised
if casinos were altering the dice also. Apparently they do
not want the players to have any chance of a win. The next
step for the casinos appears to be to take the patron's
money at the door and then let them inside to play the
games for a while! Happy Shooting,
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I haven't played lately due to
health reasons, however in the mid 90's I was playing a
lot. Usually 8 to 12 hours a day sometimes for as long as
two weeks. I have never seen dice switching nor have I
ever suspected any casino or particular table. I have
experienced heat (two guards standing behind me) and been
given the bum's rush (the dealers trying to speed the game
up so you don't have the time to place all your bets) when
I was hot for an extended time. The casinos have too much
to lose if they did switching. Hope this helps.
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I'm not afraid of unfair dice.
However unfair dealers I believe are an issue. I've
witnessed a number of times where the # rolled was not
what was called. One game at Excalibur did exactly this.
It was early morning, just 2 players at the end of my
table, me and another player. The dice were rolled, it
was an 8 and the stick called 7 out. The point was 8 by
the way. So we were all excited. We both just erupted,
and our dealer just said it is what he called, he didn't
see it. How can we both be seeing things? And I don't
drink while I gamble. Pretty much got up at that moment
and left. It�s bad enough when the dice are against you,
but when the dealers are too, the gambler has little
chance. I've also seen dealers short change people
and they have no idea. I'm sure this happens more than
dealers would want to admit.
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I play crap in three different
casinos, Horseshoe Indiana, French Lick and Belterra. I
have quit shooting at Horseshoe Indiana because I rarely
see a run there. See a lot of point and out rolls. The
other two casinos I have had some decent rolls and the
difference I think is the table padding. Horseshoe the
landing surface for the dice is really hard where the
other two casinos landing area are much softer. At the
Horseshoe Indiana it sounds like the dice are landing in a
tin cup. Don�t know that this makes a difference but I am
inclined to think it does. If possible I would appreciate
a reply to this email.
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I don't know if it was the
dice or the man but one time in Sahara in Las Vegas I had
an unusual incident. I met a guy who could throw any
combination you wanted to see.
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To both questions, I don't
really know. I believe that any casino has too much to
lose, either in their gaming license or p.r. since the
word would get out not to play at any of the casinos that
don't treat their players. If their is cheating of any
kind, I would imagine it would be for their high rollers,
but still they have way too much too lose, besides they
have the best of it anyway. The edge is always with the
house. If you start winning way to much, they'll just
close the table on you anyway. Just my thoughts on your
questions.
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In
the last 18 months I have had poor results in the
following casinos in Vegas. Rio, Paris, Bally's and
Harrah�s. In prior years I have had very good success at
those casinos. Invariably one table would be hot!
Especially at the Rio......one table would always be hot
and I mean hot. I don't remember when they added the fire
bet, but it was at least 5 years ago and maybe a lot more,
(the years tend to go by very fast) I would hit the fire
bet at least once each trip and most trips several times.
I have never hit six numbers, but I have hit 5 on numerous
occasions. In the last 18 months I have hit four numbers
only once, and that was a very short roll.....I made very
little money. I would roll a number and then repeat
it.......I probably rolled a total of 12 times.
I
use to have good luck at TI, but I must be in a slump....I
can't even do well their. In the past 18 months, I have
not seen what I call a Hot Table anywhere. The dealers
are not nearly as friendly as they use to be!
Well, I'm going back to find my old karma Feb. 26, 27 and
28th. I use to tell everyone that I have never been to
Vegas for three days and not hit at least one fire bet. I
sure can't say that anymore.
I
do enjoy your monthly news letter. One of these days I
plan to go to one of your classes.
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It's good to hear from you,
especially inquiring about a craps issue. It's not often
the "illuminati" or "intelligentsia" of a field bother to
inquire as to how things are going in our lives. However,
in this field of study, I've not felt "talked down to."
In many fields the journalists are brutally condescending,
but in this one it's like a mutual-benefit society. We
are all learning together. (Except that the smarter ones
get to charge the beginners for knowledge. When compared
to the price of learning at a casino craps table,
though, it's a bargain.) Truly, I'm glad to be asked
these craps questions
I'll tell what I think and
then what I know, starting with what I know. I play
mostly in Missouri, and mostly at a casino a few miles
away in Boonville. It's an Isle of Capri casino.
About the dice--I have watched
the crew spin new dice on axis many times in order to see
just how balanced they are, and am not impressed.
Normally as least two out of the five in a set will
backspin about 180 degrees instead of slowing to a stop.
I asked what would make the casino reject a set of dice
and was told that it's never happened! Maybe this is to
create an illusion of fairness. Don't know.
At the same time, I've never
noticed any difference in size, texture, or color within a
die-lot number (printed on each one). The Boonville
casino may switch from smooth to brushed-finished dice
from time to time, but within a set they are uniform in
every way obvious to the touch and eye. In short, there
appears to be imperfection in the balance only. Without
uniformity guidelines, these imperfect dice will likely
continue being used.
In conclusion, on the dice
issue, what I "think" or conclude, has to be carefully
weighed. One friend told me that he had a friend who
worked in Vegas for many years and that they purposely
used "mis-out" dice at times to cash in on large crowds of
players, like on weekends. (This is another word for
"crooked" dice.) While this sounds attractive, I'm not
buying into it--yet.
Indeed, there seems to be no
way for the local player here to win on weekends. Some
conclude it's because the casino uses different dice
then. It makes business sense to use a HIGHER PERCENTAGE
DICE at times when players are abundant and then to use a
lower percentage dice when only regulars are at the
table. Personally, I know that as a "local" I have a
harder time, too, on weekends, but I think it's because
the players are distracted easier by more drinking,
flirting, sassy dealers, etc. I SUSPECT that the above is
true, and that the casinos know the potential productivity
of dice by their lot number.
Do I think casinos cheat at
the dice tables? There's no reason to believe that. I'll
catch Hell for saying that from my friend, Jim, but while
they will use dice that are imperfect in weight
distribution, they are very close. What is cheating? Is
dice-setting cheating? It all depends on if they take
UNFAIR advantage of the player. I'm not sure they do
intentionally, except for the "percentage dice" comment
previous.
Many local players are chapped
that the "Isle" is cracking down on players not hitting
the back wall. After a couple nights a couple months ago
where they lost a lot of money, they got tough on that,
but are still pretty nice to me.
Personally, it's no more
cheating for me to try to de-randomize dice than it is for
the casino to ask that I hit both dice off the back wall.
It's part of the game we have to deal with--like soft and
hard tables, long and short tables, and smooth and rough
dice. We adjust!
Here's what I do to keep
my focus:
1.) Since I want to
limit my distractions, I keep from being dogged by table
personnel by BEING NICE TO THEM. I know it's a hard
thing, but I'm hardly ever called down for ANYTHING at the
table. I try to be liked, mention often that I'm trying
to hit the wall with both dice, and they seem to overlook
imperfect throws. I want it to be O.K. with them if I win
a bunch of money, too. The last thing would want is to be
distracted by a dealer on the 20th point of a monster
roll!
2) I give the box man
something to do besides watch me set and throw the dice.
I can throw a bet (small) on the hardways that only he can
reach, on the come out, throw him three dollars for the
"three-way red," or throw him a chip for the dealers. I
like to keep him busy. At times you can just compliment
him on his tie, watch, girlfriend, etc. (careful on the gf
part)
3) Constantly evaluate
the last throw by asking these questions:
�Did I correct that little
thing that was wrong before?"
"What was right with that
last toss?"
�What was wrong, if
anything with that last toss?"
"Am I dealing the fear of
throwing a seven so that I don't change my toss
subconsciously?"
The only time I was unhappy
with a casino, was in Nevada. There was a small one, near
the border, that would NOT let me set the dice. I should
have refused to play. For the most part, especially in
one Kansas City and one St. Louis casino, you get a fair
game in Missouri. With 10x and 20x odds, there is a
chance to hit fast on a few points thrown. That's better
than Vegas, my friend.
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Let me tell you something from
my prospective, one of working inside casinos for more
than ten years and playing in them for more than 20. You
touched on it 100% when you said that you had asked the
craps crew when they were balancing the dice if they had
ever rejected a set of dice and their answer was no. You
see, the reality of the situation is that in many casinos,
but especially in these little, �river boat� or hometown
casinos, you have inexperienced staff who know little
about gambling and even less about the ins and outs of
things like craps.
In regards to the Boonville
casino, I helped �open� that casino, my fourth with the
Isle of Capri, and we hired 90% of all the employees
locally and the 10% that we did bring in to help train the
other 90% have all left and gone to other properties since
its opening in 2001. This is something the Isle does, like
I said it was my fourth casino and we have done all four
the same way. (Except the one we took over from another
casino, the employees were already there and only had to
be re-trained to do things the way our company does them).
Bottom line is this, you have
a new casino with new employees who were trained by people
who are no longer there who are just �going through the
motions� of what they were taught back in 2001 and they
really don�t know anything. They don�t get updated
training, they don�t have out side input so they only do
things the same way they always have. My point to this is
that, in my opinion, the staff at most of these river boat
casinos wouldn�t know a crooked dice if the saw one!!! and
as far as balancing the dice, yes I agree with you
Anthony, I think they are just �going through the motions�
and really don�t know what they are doing.
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I'm not sure if this is
cheating, but I've seen dice that are just a little
chipped at the corners.
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